Cosmopolitan, October 1992

[00:00:01] Have you upset a man lately? Do you think you're hot just because you're blonde? Are you going through a lesbian phase? Well, you've come to the right place. Hello and welcome to Mag Hags, the podcast that's here to ruin men's lives. I'm Lucy Douglas. And I'm Franki Cookney. Together, we're diving into the glossy archives of women's magazines to find out what's still hot and what's

[00:00:30] definitely not. Well, Franki, we have come to the end of our first series of Mag Hags. Oh, cue sad music. I know. But wait, we're coming back, aren't we? We bloody well are. By hook or by crook? Yes. So we will be taking a little bit of a break so we can regroup and plan what we want to do next, where we want to take the podcast next, that sort of thing. And also raise some money. Hopefully raise

[00:00:59] some money. Yes. So basically, listeners, what that means is that we'll be approaching some brands about potential sponsorship or collaboration. But we would also really love your support. And there are three ways that people can support us. That's right, isn't it, Franki? Yeah. You can subscribe to the Mag Hags newsletter on Substack. We've been banging on about that all series. Or you can sign up for Mag Hags membership on Patreon. Incidentally, these are also the best ways

[00:01:27] to keep in touch. Find out what we're up to and when we're likely to be back in your headphones. However, if you can't stretch to a subscription right now, you can also make a one-off donation via Ko-fi. And that really helps as well. Just go to maghags.co.uk and click on Join the Club to find the option that works for you. We've also put the link in the show notes. So Lucy, tell me about this week's episode. Are we ending on a high?

[00:01:52] Well, I think we are. But first, Frankie, I wanted to show you this book that I got for Christmas. It's called How to Piss Off Men. 109 Things to Say to Shatter the Male Ego. Incredible. I have to say, I'm not sure I need a book for that. But go on, hit me. I know. I don't think I do either. And it's one of those sort of gifts that I get in a very sort of pointed way by female relatives. This book is by a guy called Kyle Pruitt,

[00:02:22] who is an influencer and comedian and an author. And he does a lot of this kind of how to piss off men thing on his Instagram. So we'll include that in the show notes too. But I just want to share some highlights. A personal favourite of mine. I like your blouse. You can use this one on pretty much any man, providing he's wearing his shirt. So simple, so effective.

[00:02:46] Can you ride a bike? The more quiet scepticism you can show in response to his answer, the better. Anyway, this felt relevant because today we will be discussing something as salient now as it was back in 1992, which is when the magazine that we're discussing in this episode was published. And that is, has feminism been bad for men? Oh, wow. Evergreen subject.

[00:03:13] We've also got a feature that is dripping in internalised biphobia. So listeners, take note of that in case it sounds like something you'd prefer to skip. The timestamps will be in the show notes as always. And we'll also be looking at blondness, just like as a concept. Wow. I could not be more excited. Let's be having you.

[00:03:39] Frankie, as it is the last episode in the series, I thought what better way to end than right back where we started with the icon of women's magazines teaching us how to have it all. We are back at Cosmopolitan. Oh, what a beautifully kind of neatly tied up series.

[00:04:02] I know, I know. And this time is October 1992. So a few of the headlines. Department of Health announced that AIDS cases had risen 50% among heterosexuals between 1990 and 1991. We had the further and higher education apps that enabled polytechnics to become new universities. The last issue of Punch magazine, the satirical magazine that's been in circulation since 1841,

[00:04:33] closed in, I think it's April, due to massive losses. Britain's not in great shape economically. Do you remember you told me about the Lawson boom back when we did the issue of the good housekeeping in 1998? Well, we are now in the bust that follows that boom, I think. Uh-oh. Me sowing, me reaping. Me sowing, me reaping. Exactly. So obviously inflation went sky high after those cuts to income tax. So

[00:05:02] interest rates shot up as a result in the early 90s. In 1990, the Bank of England base rate hit 14.87%. So yeah, where you find us now in 1992, we are in a period of recession. Unemployment is just shy of 10% this year with around 3 million people out of work. And unsurprisingly, therefore, there was quite a lot

[00:05:26] of rioting at various points in the year. We also had a general election in 1992. So Prime Minister John Major, who took over following the sort of ousting of Margaret Thatcher by her own party, he calls the election for the 9th of April. And according to the polls, it looks pretty close. The indication is that it's either going to be a hung parliament or possibly Neil Kinnock's Labour will get a narrow

[00:05:50] majority. But yeah, on election day, the sun ran its infamous, if Kinnock wins today, will the last person to leave Britain please turn the lights out front page. Do you remember that? Oh, wow. Yes. I mean, I don't actually remember seeing it, but I obviously am familiar with it. Yes. Yes, exactly. Obviously, it's important that we check in on the royal family. Of course, my goodness. Yes.

[00:06:19] 1992 was an annus horribilis. Yes, famously, the Queen's worst year. That's what she called it, isn't it? That was how she described it herself in a speech that she gave. It was her Ruby Jubilee that year. Ruby Jubes. Basically, her kids and their terrible marriages that were the cause of such a shitty year. Yeah. There's also a fire in Windsor Castle. Oh, God, yes. Yes, yes. The fire

[00:06:47] in Windsor Castle. I mean, I really remember that, like being on the news and stuff. Against that potted backdrop, Frankie, would you like to check out what's on the cover of our issue? I would. Okay. Here she is. Men squeak up for themselves how women have ruined men's lives with their rotten equality. Oh, wow. I know. The great cuddle muddle. Why does hugging have to lead

[00:07:14] to sex? Women in love. Are you going through a lesbian phase? Wackets. Or is it the real thing? No. Oh, my God, stop it. Mixed religion romance, he's Catholic, you're not, and other god-awful complications. Hey, good looking, being blonde just isn't enough anymore. Oh, tell me about it. Does your life lack direction? Well, marriage and children aren't the answer. Exclusive,

[00:07:42] Alice Walker on female circumcision. Oh, okay. And zest for explosive energy and a super toned body. So yeah, our cover, it's super bold. So it's an autumn issue, but it's like really summery colours. It's like really vibrant, bright yellow. It's really bold. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's so 1992. It's really kind of like saved by the bell, isn't it? So saved by the bell, yeah. Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, like all of those kinds of shows.

[00:08:11] Exactly. Like we've got this sort of fuchsia purple sort of cover lines and really, really hot pink, electric blue, and yeah, deep magenta purple. So it feels super like upbeat and bold and dynamic. Do you recognise our cover model at all, Frankie? I have actually mentioned her on the podcast before. Oh, okay. No, I don't. It's Melanie Sykes in her early modelling years. Yeah.

[00:08:40] Okay. Now that you say that, yeah, I can see it. So I've mentioned already that the UK is in recession at this point, and it is casually referred to at like various points throughout the editorial in the magazine. Like lots of mentions, like not having much spare cash and things like that. However, this magazine is enormous.

[00:09:03] It is huge. Like it's over 300 pages. So while the economy may be bad, Cosmopolitan's advertising revenue is pretty strong, which I think is an indication of like where we are in the timeline of women's magazines, like as a consumer product. Yeah. Okay.

[00:09:24] There's a 32 page magalog, like in the middle of this magazine. It describes itself as a magalog. So that is a mashup of magazine and catalogue. So yeah, this magazine is really huge. And I had a really hard time trying to decide what I wanted to talk about. Another feature I just wanted to flag up before we sort of do our big deep dive. It's called All You Need to Know About Abortion.

[00:09:55] And the reason I wanted to draw attention to it is because I know we've obviously spoken back when we did our very first episode about how women's magazines, like behind the sex tips and the pithy copy. They were obviously serving like really valuable, important information on things like women's health that women probably weren't able to get elsewhere. And this feature is like a perfect

[00:10:20] example of that. As its name suggests, it is everything you could possibly need to know about abortion. It covers what the law says, the different medical procedures, and at what point in a pregnancy each would be used, what to do if you have an unwanted pregnancy and you decide to have an abortion, which clinic providers to look for if you don't want to go to your normal doctor, what to expect when you go to the clinic, all of that sort of thing.

[00:10:50] That's a really comprehensive piece of service journalism. Exactly, exactly that. There's a long section with the subhead, risks and psychological effects, which does a lot of like debunking of the anti-abortion rhetoric of the times. Obviously, this type of content, like the need for it now is a lot less than it was in 1992. Like young women

[00:11:12] now can just go on their phones and Google what to do if I need an abortion. But I think when we look back at these mags, like especially millennials like us who were sort of mostly reading them in the noughties, like it's easy to just remember the salacious sex tips or like the uncomfortable diet features or the quizzes or whatever and forget this like genuinely radical side to them that was quietly pushing the dial for equality. Oh yeah, 100%, totally agree.

[00:11:42] Are you ready to go inside this issue? Yes, I can't wait. Poor darlings. There are a lot of hurt men around, smarting from the verbal flack they get from women, or so Neil Linden and other like-minded men would have us believe. His book, No More Sex War, shows how horrid life has become for men since feminism by Michael Bywater. Yes. Oh my God, I'm so excited to be talking about this.

[00:12:12] Yeah. So this is obviously our men squeak up for themselves how women have ruined men's lives with their rotten equality feature from the cover. The sort of the first thousand words or so is mostly a kind of a potted history of men's responses to feminism and women's equality movement of the last kind of 10 years or so. And sort of why they're starting to, why some men are feeling a bit

[00:12:41] hard done by in this sort of very kind of pithy style. Based on the cover line, Frankie, men squeak up for themselves. Is this the story you thought you were going to get? Yeah, I think it is. But the fact that you asked me that suggests that it wasn't what you thought you were going to get. But I think the tone of it is quite, that felt quite surprising to me.

[00:13:09] Is it the fact that it's a sort of like one guy's essay, the part that surprised you? Yeah, I think it's partly that. I think I thought there were going to be more, I was going to hear more like voices of men. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. There are some voices, but it is all kind of heavily filtered through his sort of ironic lens, isn't it?

[00:13:31] Yeah, exactly. So a little bit, I guess a little bit of sort of gender politics context here. So in the 1980s, the idea of the new man emerged.

[00:13:45] And the new man gets sort of referenced quite a few times in this article. But yeah, that was quite a sort of 80s concept, like in contrast to like the sort of power suited women going out, going out into the office and earning their own money and being super dynamic. We had the new man who, as far as I can tell, is basically just a man who did some parenting.

[00:14:07] Yeah, I mean, it was, I think it was like basically a guy who was just in some way, kind of casting off masculine stereotypes. He was kind of, you know, broadly pro-feminism, like emotionally intelligent, engaged with the ways that patriarchy harms men, basically rejecting what we would now call toxic masculinity.

[00:14:27] Yeah. So it's kind of the same, a lot of the same stuff that we encounter now. Like how, if you describe a guy as like being woke now, it's basically the same thing. Or like, you know, in more derogatory terms, like a soy boy. So interestingly as well, like here, we're kind of on the precipice of lad culture, but we haven't quite got there yet. So like Loaded is launched in 1994. So a couple of years time from now.

[00:14:54] FHM does already exist by this point. It was launched in the mid 80s, but it's kind of FHM as we sort of know it. That happened in 1994 as well when it was bought by EMAP and Mike Sutar came on board as the editor and kind of rebranded it and made it the sort of juggernaut that it became.

[00:15:14] So yeah, that kind of, that really, really laddy culture hasn't, hasn't quite sort of happened yet. And it is interesting thinking about that in the context of this feature as a sort of reaction to women's equality.

[00:15:32] Lots of sociologists would draw a line between like the emergence of the new man and then there's like backlash and it was kind of known as like the new lad. And then that became like the sort of lad culture of like the men's mags of the later 90s. And also men behaving badly. Do you remember that show? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:15:53] That launched in 1992. And again, that was kind of seen as like a response to like the new man. That's, that's sort of one of the reasons I was really excited to talk about this feature because I feel like we are at this interesting like point in feminism and also discourse around masculinity. Yeah. I also found this, this might be interesting. There's a press release from Condé Nast, which went out in 1991 that read,

[00:16:20] GQ is proud to announce that the new man has officially been laid to rest. If indeed he ever drew breath, the 90s man knows who he is, what he wants and where he's going. And he's not afraid to say so. And yes, he still wants to get laid. So I feel like that's like, that's the trajectory we're on now. Do you know what I mean? Wow. Okay. That is fascinating. Isn't it amazing? I'll put the link in the show notes.

[00:16:49] Yeah, no, do. But yeah. So what did you think about this feature? Do you sort of recognize the hurt men that he talks about? Yeah, definitely. I think it's very like, what about the men? Isn't it? Like, Yeah.

[00:17:05] I mean, not, you know, that's not the writer's point of view, but the kind of attitude and the phenomenon he's describing is very, what about the men? I mean, there's even a line in it where he says like, for a decade or more, they have been on the side of women, these hurt men in inverted commas. And yet it seems that the women are still angry. Now the men are starting to think, what about us? Do our feelings count for nothing? And I was like, oh man, like, so familiar.

[00:18:02] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That felt very familiar to me. It's very rewards for good boys, isn't it?

[00:18:14] Yes, totally. I honestly think that this sort of vibe has informed feminism throughout my entire like adult life. This idea that, oh, we have to bring the men along with us. If we don't bring along the men with us, then they're going to get sad. I feel like that's been a sort of like thread throughout my adult life.

[00:18:41] Which I kind of get in a way because it just makes for a more peaceful transition of power. And also when you're a woman who has relationships with men, whether you're straight or bi or however you identify, if men are the group of people to who, like among whom you're looking for a romantic partner, it's very, very hard to hate them all. It makes life a lot more challenging.

[00:19:10] Exactly. It's like, oh, I too want to get laid. And it turns out hostility does not grease those wheels. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So why, why this feature in Cosmopolitan? Because I felt like it's, it's not totally sympathetic to women.

[00:19:28] I kind of know what you mean, but it's sort of, it didn't strike me that it would be kind of telling Cosmo readers anything they didn't know about themselves or like where feminist discourse was at. So there's a bit where he's talking about men being sympathetic to women's lib and it reads, and then women said, hang on, what's with all this sympathy shit? We don't want your lousy sympathy. We want equality. Your sympathy is as patronising as your contempt.

[00:19:58] I mean, fair enough on that. But then it goes, you are complete bastards. And what's more, you're lousy in bed. And then it does sort of go on to say elsewhere about women getting ruder and women being beastly to men. Although like on reflection, maybe he's just like, maybe he's just being tongue in cheek. It's possible I was kind of reading it with a sort of over sensitive, like 20, 25 lens.

[00:20:23] Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I did think the whole thing had quite a tongue in cheek tone. Like I said earlier, it was kind of all filtered through his irony. My feeling was that Michael Bywater writing it came off pretty well and pretty like he understood the issues and he kind of understood women's point of view. Here's a little sort of example of the writing, I think, that shows this quite nicely.

[00:20:49] Exactly. So yeah. So after we've had the, your sympathy is as patronising as your contempt. This upsets some men, not the men who had remained sneeringly dismissive all along. They reacted to the fact that women were still shouting and getting ruder by the moment with an air of quiet confidence. Didn't that just prove that what they had said all along? Didn't it show incontrovertibly that women weren't ready to move into the real world of real people,

[00:21:15] people with suits and testicles? Wasn't it fair to say that until women stopped shouting and behaved properly, solving their grievances rationally, the way people with suits and testicles solved their grievances, it was best for them to stay at home where it didn't matter if they shouted or went funny once a month. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I feel like that is very much delivered in a way that shows that it's like,

[00:21:45] I, the writer, do not think this, but you, the readers, and I both know that there are men out there who really do think like this. You know, the butt of the joke felt to me very much like the suit and testicle men. Yeah. So on the final page, we've got the, we've got this big pull quote at the bottom. The brief 80s flirtation with new manishness proved irrefutably that women do not like new men, or at least they like them well enough, but don't fancy them, screw them or marry them.

[00:22:13] And I thought that was really interesting because I think that the sort of the Andrew Tates of the world today would, would still have us believe that like women are not interested in men who don't subscribe to those traditional sort of markers of masculinity.

[00:22:37] But I wonder, like, did the 80s prove irrefutably that women do not like new men? I mean, it's, you know, it's very subjective, isn't it? And it's, it's funny that you mentioned Andrew Tate in that whole world. Like I wrote down in my notes, it's the whole fucking Chad thing, this idea of the kind of man that women really want. I mean, I think the thing about that is like, plenty of women fancy slash screw, side note, petition to bring back screw as a verb for have

[00:23:07] sex with. Yeah, screw is a good, yeah, it's a good non-sweary, casual verb. I like it. I like it. It feels, it feels kind of cheeky and fun. Anyway, plenty of women fancy slash screw slash marry gentle, woke men. Of course they do. But also plenty of women still are attracted to more stereotypical expressions of masculinity.

[00:23:33] It's also often not mutually exclusive. Like sometimes women attracted to both. Yeah. There's just lots of ways to be a man. It's not a binary. Yeah, yeah. I always think that idea of like women don't like the new man is like so, I always think it's so funny because I think you don't have to look very hard to see these sorts of

[00:23:59] ideas of what men think women want, that kind of chaddy, like Love Island, like aesthetic, sort of hairless, like Adonis man. And then you don't have to look very hard to see like thousands and thousands of women on social media, like losing their absolute minds over Andrew Garfield in a nice jumper.

[00:24:26] Yeah. Or your man, the bear. Oh yeah, exactly. Jeremy Allen White. Yeah, I know. I think so many of men's convictions about what women want are actually about what other men value and admire. I think there's just a lot of examples of men deciding that women want something and it's actually, it's actually them that's decided it.

[00:24:55] Yeah, I know. So yeah, I did really feel like this piece was like wandering quite, especially this sort of second half, like wandering quite wildly all over the place. But then he really, he really pulls it back in the last sort of couple of hundred words, which are really good. I mean, to be honest, if I'd been editing this feature, I would have like drawn a line through a lot of it and put a big exclamation mark next to this bit and been like, make more of this. Make this the

[00:25:24] whole piece. Yeah. So yeah, the real problem has nothing to do with women. The real problem is that the game we, men, have made up over the last couple of millennia, but more specifically in the last 150 years, is simply not worth the candle. We have designed a game where lying and cheating, suppressing the truth, wearing a hatchet face, being aggressive and materialistic and utterly, utterly selfish are

[00:25:49] the ways to win. And we have decided that winning is the thing to do. We have two choices, stop trying to win or else change the rules. And if we decide to try and change the rules, we have another pair of alternatives. We can stop moaning about the women and get on with it or be terribly startlingly brave and invite the women onto the new rules committee. I really liked that. Yeah. It was really good.

[00:26:16] Yeah. And I really like what he says about the sort of competitive element of it and like, why do we feel like it's always a competition, like we've got to win? I still feel like that competitive element is quite a big part of like mainstream masculinity. I also thought that was quite interesting from the idea of like, I think for a long time, there was an idea that like women who were succeeding and women who were like getting ahead had to

[00:26:43] do it like men, whatever it was. They had to exhibit all of these, this competitiveness, this lying, cheating, wearing a hatchet face, being aggressive. And it's only really been in the last sort of 15 years or so that it's felt like the dial has shifted slightly and people have been more like, maybe we don't have to do it like men. Maybe we can do it a better way and we can just be better for everybody rather than doing it this not very nice way.

[00:27:13] Yeah, totally. Oh, Lucy, I'm exhausted after that workout, but you look like you've barely broken a sweat. Well, Frankie, that's because of my LA Gear Ultra Lightweight Catapult Impulse Shoes. They're specially designed to help you coast through your aerobic workout. Oh, they are? Yes. The catapult technology system in the heels absorbs the impact of every step and then springs you upwards. Gosh, no wonder you look so relaxed after aerobics.

[00:27:43] Even better, they're born out of consultation with experts to help cushion your knees, ankles and lower back and hold off fatigue. Your whole body will feel the benefit, leaving you feeling fresh enough to enjoy life after exercise. Ooh, maybe I should try them. To wear them is to want them. Frankie, I've got a problem. I think I'm carrying too much fat.

[00:28:08] Oh, Lucy, don't worry. Nature decrees that all of us carry some fat. Yes, but I think I'm carrying a little too much. Well, help is on hand. In the shape of a bottle. Did you know that semi-skimmed milk is only 1.6% fat? Is that all? Yes. There's less than half the fat of whole milk, so it's one of the easiest ways to cut down on fat in your diet. But don't worry, you'll still get all the other benefits of milk. Like calcium.

[00:28:36] Exactly. A pint of semi-skimmed still contains enough calcium for the average adult's daily needs, and it delivers other minerals and a veritable alphabet of vitamins. Gosh, a veritable alphabet, eh? If you'd like more information on how milk can contribute towards a healthy, balanced diet, drop a line to the National Dairy Council. And if you'd just like a pint of semi-skimmed, drop a note for your milkman. Wow! I will wake up to milk.

[00:29:08] I obviously thought that advert was amazing and had to include it, but there were quite a lot of, like, a noticeable number of ads for supplements or health-related dietary things. There's evidence of the public consciousness being around the ingredients that you're putting into your body. Which, following on from our 1986-19 magazine diet feature, feels very kind of on point, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:39] You wouldn't call yourself a lesbian, but... You might be tempted to try it once. If you were to meet the right kind of woman, could you be one of the invisible thousands who come out temporarily? By Nicky Pearson. Well, Frankie. Well, I know you have thoughts.

[00:30:04] And before we dive into it, I'll just sort of introduce where we are. So obviously this is our feature from the cover. Are you going through a lesbian phase? Brackets, or is it the real thing? Oh my God. Yeah. Which, I mean, I think that does a fairly, like, comprehensive job of setting up what this feature is about, of explaining what this feature is about.

[00:30:33] I am going to read the opening couple of paragraphs. I lost my virginity twice, and I'm not the only one. So has the woman who lives in the flat downstairs, and the woman you say hello to at yoga, and the graduate trainee who's just joined the company. It's not that we're afflicted with a rare gynecological condition that means we have two of everything, or that we divide our early sex life into, A, breaking the hymen, and B, sex with love.

[00:31:01] It's because for tens of thousands of women, there was a first time with a man, dot, dot, dot, and a first time with a woman. So, yeah, Frankie, tell me what you made of this feature. Oh, God. Where on earth do I start with this?

[00:31:22] I think my immediate sense when I read this feature was a kind of recognition of like, oh, because to me, as a bi person, this is a feature about bisexuality, but it is absolutely refusing to call it that. And so,

[00:31:54] seeing it kind of play out, and realizing, oh, yeah, this is how these experiences were framed in the 90s, felt quite weirdly affirming, in the sense of like, yeah, this is why I didn't know I was bi. Because you read this feature, bisexuality does not exist. And so, while there's obviously lots that's terrible about that,

[00:32:22] and I'm sure we're going to unpack some of it, my immediate reaction was like, oh, my God, I wasn't just a fucking idiot. This is how, this is how it got talked about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like you've been gaslit for like years and years and years and years, and then somebody goes, oh, no, no, no, the light was getting dimmer. Yeah. And you're like, oh, oh, my God. I wasn't going mad. Yeah.

[00:32:50] They do use the word bisexual maybe once, but only to say, I wouldn't call myself bisexual. Yeah, yeah, only to say I'm not that. Definitely not that. I'm not talking about preteen groping or women who have belatedly discovered they were lesbians. Most of us probably wouldn't even describe ourselves as bisexual. Yeah, that was the bit. We just happened to have met a wonderful woman at a party to whom we felt incredibly attracted, got a bit drunk, and well,

[00:33:20] one thing led to another. I mean, look, you know, obviously we're talking about this in 2025, and people have got every right to use whatever identity labels they want. If somebody doesn't connect with the label bisexual, fine, don't use it. But that's not what's going on here, is it? No, I don't think so. So the feature is sort of structured. It's kind of,

[00:33:47] it's a written through feature and it's sort of structured as she kind of sets up this idea that like, there are tens of thousands of women who have had sexual experiences, with other women, but who would not, who don't identify as homosexual women. And, and this experience, while it's incredibly common, is also incredibly like silent and hidden.

[00:34:17] She sort of says, it's most unlikely that your neighbor slash classmate slash colleague will ever discuss this with you. Women's homosexual experience is almost invisible. And then she kind of tells the story of a couple of case studies that she's spoken to. So there's a woman called Kate, and then there's a woman called Maria. And then she starts telling her own story. I'll just read out a little bit of Kate's story, because A is a really good example of, I think,

[00:34:46] what you were talking about before, what you were getting at before, I think, which is like, there's some real internalized like homophobia and biphobia going on here. Yeah. These women, which is why these women are like rejecting. Yes. These terms. So we've got this woman, Kate, who begins it by saying, it was a time in my life when I was experimenting with everything, politics, drugs, sex. And she meets this woman called Anna, and they start like having an affair. But they both have,

[00:35:16] they both have boyfriends. And Kate, this made me so horribly uncomfortable. Maybe it actually made me quite angry. So Kate says, my boyfriend used to get off on the whole thing and was quite encouraging. I was allowed to get involved with Anna and still see him as long as I told him about it in lurid detail. When I started getting private about it, he said it was her or him. And then she says, it stopped because I got scared about the idea of being a dyke,

[00:35:46] her word, not mine, that I might not get married and the potential loneliness of it all. It's like, babe, I hate to tell you, but there is literally nothing more lonely. Than being in denial about your sexual identity and in a relationship with the wrong person. I know. It is just awful. And also that part about like my boyfriend used to get off on the whole thing, like that really kind of touched a nerve for me as well, because I do think that like,

[00:36:16] it took me a really long time to sort of shake off like the male gaze of my sexuality. Like there's this whole framing of like how women's homosexuality is being for men and how like guys always find it hot and want to know. And even now, like queer women definitely still sort of get harassed by men who are like, oh, can I join in? Like even lesbian couples, like I've even known lesbian couples. Yeah. Guys be like, oh, can I join you? And they're like,

[00:36:47] why on earth would you think that? Yeah. Yeah. So that felt really poignant because I was like, yeah, that is kind of how it was framed as like, it was this thing you did to titillate men. Like it wasn't even your own. Yeah. There's a bit, there's a bit later on where she, she describes herself as a lesbian tourist. And that concept,

[00:37:16] I really like, that felt really familiar to me. It like, I guess as a trope, that idea felt really familiar. And I feel like every gay person I know, or like most of them have had some sort of horrible formative experience that has involved somebody who was either experimenting, going through a phase in inverted commas,

[00:37:46] or, or still quite confused. And that's kind of ended up being a very painful experience. I felt like now, like it really struck me as a thing to write down because I felt like now that would be, that would not be something that you would like, um, flippantly own up to. That would be something that would be quite shameful to admit. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I mean, I, I, I wrote that down as well. I was like,

[00:38:14] I don't think you would get a bi woman calling herself a lesbian tourist. I think if we're trying to find like a modern day equivalent, I feel like bi curious is the slightly loaded 21st century younger cousin of lesbian tourist. That being said, I don't think anyone who calls himself bi curious is being dismissive of it in the way that the people in this article are. I think for them, there is a,

[00:38:44] like most of the time, there's a bit more of a genuine sense of like, I am at the curiosity stage of my journey with my sexuality. But I do also know that lesbians and other queer women can be quite scathing of bi curiosity for exactly the reason that you were just saying like, no, thanks. I don't want to be your experiment.

[00:39:07] My experience is that people are generally a lot more understanding of and open to like the fluidity of sexual attraction and sexual identity, et cetera. But it, yeah, it does still exist. And as you say, a lot of people have had kind of shitty experiences with, in inverted commas, tourists. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? So going back to the bit early on, the, the sentence,

[00:39:35] women's homosexual experience is almost invisible. Hmm. What do we think about that? I mean, I think it's, there's a lot of truth to that. Don't you? I think women's sexual experiences are often less visible, full stop. The male sexual experience has long been the kind of focal point of, you know, science, psychology, culture.

[00:40:03] So then when you get a situation that literally has no men in it, it's just automatically even more invisible. Do you know what? It actually reminded me of the two Angelas in Honey, Yeah. 1976, who went to live in this Somerset village. And as far as we could tell, none of their neighbours had any clue. They were a couple. Yeah. That is really fascinating,

[00:40:33] isn't it? Just thinking like just 16 years earlier, women, like homosexual women, are kind of appearing in the pages of these magazines, but it's not, there's no acknowledgement that that's what it is. I think the invisibility thing is interesting, right? It's kind of, it's kind of a double-edged sword because on the one hand, they can fly under the radar in a way that, you know, again, thinking about the two Angelas,

[00:41:00] there's no way that if two men had moved into a house together in Somerset, people wouldn't have worked out. They were a couple. So, that invisibility does afford you a little bit more privacy, but on the other hand, you know, it's very invalidating to be invisible. Yeah. At the end, at the end of this wildly problematic feature, just to kind of round it off, I mean,

[00:41:30] it does end on a more, I'm not going to say positive because it isn't positive, but the note that it ends on is, is much more like. Constructive? Constructive. Yeah, there we go. That's a better word. She, she, she ends by acknowledging the significance of the relationship that she had. So she says, it wasn't until several years later, I recognize the significance of my temporary homosexuality. The relationship was a mixture of chance,

[00:41:57] meeting an exceptional woman and my own psychosexual history, being scared of men and wanting something that was more like an extension of friendship. I don't, and then new paragraph, I don't understand why women keep their lesbian experiences so invisible. Is it because British people are notoriously repressed and don't talk about their feelings? I mean, lol forever at that juxtaposition. It's me. I'm British people.

[00:42:26] But then she does also say, or is it because we now live in one of the most homophobic countries in Europe? Our age of consent laws are anachronistic. Heterosexuals still think of HIV and AIDS as a gay problem. Remember at the start, at the top of the episode, when I flagged that the Department of Health has pointed out that cases of HIV among straight people has gone up 50% in the most recent data set. And then she continues, Section 28 outlawed the promotion of homosexuality by local authorities.

[00:42:56] Perhaps when Britain becomes less homophobic, temporary homosexuals will be able to come out. Well, maybe they won't just be temporary anymore, Nikki. Maybe they won't feel they have to call themselves temporary homosexuals. I mean, yeah, like I thought, I thought those final paths were really interesting, but I just thought it was fascinating how she just set out all of this stuff and then just didn't do any analysis of at all of how that cultural context might be playing into her own

[00:43:26] internalised homophobia. She's obviously written this and Cosme has obviously published this, intending for it to be a progressive piece, a piece that feels quite like right on for the moment, feels quite cool. Like in that time. And now looking back on it, where we are now, it just feels so like galling. Yeah.

[00:43:55] And I'm saying that as a, as a straight person. Yeah. As you say, it clearly was intended to be progressive and thought provoking. What do you feel like the angle that was pitched was? I mean, I obviously don't know how she, you know, there's no saying she pitched it or it's, it's how it's possible that the editor got wind of this,

[00:44:24] that this is her experience and went, you know, if you ever want to write about it, we would love to run a feature about your lesbian phase. And that was how the feature was commissioned. But equally, it's also possible that she came to them and said, you know, I had this relationship with a woman when I was younger. And on reflection, looking back on it, it was a really significant relationship. And I think I'm only now that I'm like a bit later into my adulthood,

[00:44:53] realizing how significant it was. And I actually think this is really common. I think lots of women have experiences like this. And I think it would be really good to like shine a spotlight on this thing. That's like a real secret. And women don't talk about. I was thinking that it's a very, um, why aren't we talking about this? It's kind of got that vibe, which if no one was talking about it, then you're right. Yeah. It does seem like a,

[00:45:22] a positive kind of progressive thing to talk about it. And I guess, you know, partly it's like, it's normal, you know, it's to kind of remove stigma and demystify something that, you know, might like could potentially be taboo for a lot of people. And we'll hopefully like help people feel less alone and isolated. And actually here's Cosmo to say like, you know what? Your mate's probably done it too. Hello, Lucy here.

[00:45:51] Just a quick one to say, if you've not yet signed up for our newsletter, you definitely should. You can read the features that we talk about, see all the amazing adverts and get access to loads of other bonus bits. Plus, it's a really good way to support the show. Find us at maghags.substack.com. Frankie, are you ready for your fashion and beauty tip of the week? Yes, please.

[00:46:20] The fashion in this magazine is great, by the way, we've got like a, a really, a really nice recession fashion feature. There's like a sort of six pager on secondhand shopping, going to like vintage markets and like how to do it and kind of styling your secondhand purchases. Oh, that's so nice. Can we have some for the newsletter? Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay. Fashion. Sheep leather is best for trousers.

[00:46:51] Strut your stuff in hip hugging, leg molding, eye catching, spit and polished, great looking leather jeans. Sheep leather is best for trousers. That is because it is more supple and softer. However, often the hides aren't long enough. So you are likely to have a seam at the knee. Carol hide is a good option for better looking jeans without a join. Right. Okay. I'm, I've never owned a pair of real leather trousers in my life. I mean,

[00:47:20] to buy a pair of leather trousers today would cost you like hundreds and hundreds of pounds. I feel like. Okay. So interestingly, the prices that are listed in these magazines for, for various items of clothing really don't feel that different to what we're paying now. And I don't mean in real terms. I mean, I mean, literally that it's the same numbers. Yeah. I mean,

[00:47:46] it's such an indictment of fast fashion and how little we pay for our clothes now. Yes. 100%. So they, at the bottom of that leather jeans page, there's a, there's some prices of what you can expect to pay for leather trousers and different shops. And I also spotted that a lot of those prices didn't look that different from what you'd pay now. So for example, Next, they had them listed for 175 pounds. And I was like,

[00:48:13] I can't imagine you'd pay more than 175 pounds in Next today. I can't, I can't imagine you'd pay as much as 175 pounds in Next today. So first of all, 175 pounds in 1992 is worth 453 pounds today. I just looked that up. And then I quickly Googled Next leather trousers and you can buy, black premium, genuine leather trousers in Next. Do you want to guess Lucy? 165. Wow. Wow. So as you say, like, isn't that,

[00:48:42] that is just horrifying. Yeah. Are you ready for your beauty tip? Yes, please. Yes, yes, yes. Tattoos are trendy, but are they sexy? For women who are more cautious, temporary ones are the answer. Boots have a natural collection range for $1.99 a pack, which includes cupids, roses, and heart designs. They're simple to apply and last about three to five days. That's my beauty tip to get a little temporary tattoo. It just felt so adorable now.

[00:49:12] Like now everyone's, everyone's fucking inked up to their necks. I'm not sure I'm going to be trying out a little pretend cupid for three to five days. I love that part as well. Cupid's roses and heart designs. To be fair, if I had got a real tattoo of one of those in 1992, I would probably be a bit embarrassed now. So maybe they're right. Maybe temporary is the way to go. More than just a blonde. Once,

[00:49:39] you used to get noticed just by being blonde. But these days, if you don't want to be called a bimbo, you'd better prove you have a brain. Wow. So. Yeah. I hope you're very viscerally transported back to the 90s. I know. This is a four page feature, four pages, Frankie,

[00:50:05] on how being blonde used to be all you needed in order to be considered hot. But now that is not true. I can attest to that. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about you. You're blonde, right? You're a natural blonde. I am a natural blonde, although it is quite dark these days. What was your experience as a young blonde woman in the late 90s, early noughties?

[00:50:35] I mean, I can't say that I, I don't think I actually ever really experienced much sort of. Blonde shaming. Either way, I never experienced blonde shaming. I also don't really have many memories of sort of being singled out because I was blonde or getting like more attention. Yeah. I was not blonde. I've always had the same color hair I have now,

[00:50:59] but my sister is blonde and my cousin who lived with us for a while. She's also unnaturally, naturally blonde. Her hair is, it's a striking shade given that it's her natural color. And there was always a lot of adult attention on their blonde hair. I remember looking back now. So that, that kind of made me think, is this a bigger deal in like the seventies than it is? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it wasn't,

[00:51:28] it wasn't a thing so much like among my peer group growing up as it was like for adults, if that makes sense. I remember people talking about, oh, you'll get a lot of attention as a blonde. I feel like it's kind of thing like grownups would say to me. Also, when I lived in Italy, I remember before I went like, oh, I bet you'll get a lot of attention. And I was like, I think Italians have met blonde people before. Like it's not,

[00:51:54] it's not like when I went to like the interior of China and people were stopping us in the street to take photographs. We're in Europe. Like they know about blondes. It's not that big a deal. One thing I thought was quite interesting, Anne Bilson, the writer on this, she's actually a very well regarded film critic. Like she's still working as far as I can tell. And it's got, there's a lot of cinema knowledge in this feature,

[00:52:25] isn't there? Yeah. And actually like when I kind of reread it, I was like, oh, okay. Like this does, this does go a little bit further. She does this sort of, a bit of a like critique basically of like what blondness has become, like has come to represent and what it has become a symbol of. Like what it means culturally. What it means culturally.

[00:52:49] And how often those things that it has become a symbol of are like directly contradictory to each other. Yeah. So she kind of starts, so she obviously talks about the idea of like the bimbo and blonde hair makes men think of girlish helplessness and dependency. And then she says this great sentence, which is extremely prophetic now. For a middle-aged man, the blonde bimbo is the ultimate accessory and status symbol. She ranks up there with the Porsche and the Learjet.

[00:53:18] Men like Donald Trump like blondes. So, so we've got that. And then she kind of goes into how like, actually like, you know, blondness is, yeah, it's the symbol of beauty and stupidity, but also like glamour and sexuality. And she kind of mentions like all these sort of the bombshells, you know, with the, and the like sex pots with the killer curves. You're Bridget Bardot, you're Marilyn Monroe,

[00:53:48] obviously like blonde hair said, behold, I am man's erotic fantasy made flesh. Being blonde said fair game. Yikes. And yeah, going into the film stuff, she kind of talks about like Hitchcock's sort of penchant for like a blonde. His victims were often blonde. Yeah. And then she kind of talks about the Nazis. I really, really enjoyed that line where she said, blonde worship has its sinister side too.

[00:54:16] We should never forget that it wasn't just gentlemen who preferred blondes. The Nazis were rather keen on them as well. It feels like it was kind of indicative of the tone throughout the whole, whole thing. Like it felt really culturally critical and kind of highlighting these sort of the stupidity basically of being really into blondes. There was this really interesting paragraph. I thought about halfway down somehow,

[00:54:44] despite the rich ethnic mix of America's citizenry, blondes has become associated with the Miss America look and her all American doll equivalent Barbie, black Barbie and Barbie's brunette friends were afterthoughts and they didn't sell well. And that was, I thought was really interesting because again, like we're still like these magazines overall, we've kind of touched on this briefly. We, we, we touched on this topic briefly back when we did the good housekeeping episode, but, but by and large,

[00:55:13] all these magazines that we're looking at are so white. Yeah. So yeah, it does. It's, it's noticeable when there is a kind of pointing out of the whiteness or Eurocentricity of the sort of beauty standards at the time. Yeah. Did you identify with any of the blondes that we see? Do you have a favorite of all that? So the,

[00:55:37] the art direction for this feature is we have pictures of a huge number, 20, 30 odd, 32 blonde, famous blonde women as kind of cut outs along the sides. Yeah. So we've got, um, Meryl Streep, we've got Meg Ryan, Dolly Parton, Michelle Pfeiffer's there. Debbie Harry, Sharon Stone.

[00:56:06] We've got Daryl Hannah. Oh yes. Patsy Kensett looking like her absolute peak. Ivana Trump. Of course. Yeah. I mean, in terms of which blonde I most want to be, I think, I mean, Patsy Kensett, as we've said, looks amazing there, but I mean, it's, it's got to be Debbie Harry. Sharon Stone looks great, obviously. But yeah, I'm, I'm going for Debbie Harry as my spirit. Blonde. I,

[00:56:36] maybe I want to be Daryl Hannah. I mean, really fair. What do you think happened to the bimbo? Where did she go? This is a curious issue that we've stumbled across. When did we last have bimbos in the UK? When did bimbos go extinct? We need a rewilding project.

[00:57:05] So Frankie, what's hot and what is not in October 1992? What's hot apparently is internalized homophobia and temporary tattoos. What a combo. What a combo. And what is not, I guess, acting extremely butthurt because you support equality and you still can't get laid.

[00:57:37] Yeah. And being blonde. And being blonde. Being blonde. It's on its way out, guys. Thank you for listening. We hope you've enjoyed today's show. If you did, why not send the link to a friend or give us a shout out on your socials. We'll be back with more Maghags episodes soon. In the meantime, subscribe to the newsletter or follow us on Instagram. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.