Woman's Own, November 1972

[00:00:01] Do you want to wipe boredom from your life? Could you handle a date with the world's most wanted bachelor? Are you in the market for an alluring new hat? Well, this podcast will be a treat.

[00:00:17] Hello and welcome to Mag Hags, the podcast that goes on loving against the odds. I'm Franki Cookney.

[00:00:24] And I'm Lucy Douglas. Together we're diving into the glossy archives of women's magazines to find out what's still hot and what's definitely not.

[00:00:35] Franki, it's good to be back.

[00:00:37] Hello! Yes, it is. And I actually realised that we're in sync with our magazine this week.

[00:00:44] We're releasing this episode in November and the issue we are reading is a November issue.

[00:00:50] Ooh, so it's seasonally appropriate.

[00:00:53] It is. I mean, it's not like there's much seasonal content, to be honest. It's just the odd reference to, you know, Christmas coming up. But nevertheless, that was pleasing to me.

[00:01:03] Yeah, great. So what have we got to look forward to this week?

[00:01:06] This week, we are going further back into the archives than we have ever gone before. And boy, have we unearthed some treasures.

[00:01:15] Lucy, how much do you know about the history of modern menstruation?

[00:01:19] I am going to say not much.

[00:01:21] Well, you're in luck. In this week's issue, we've got an advert which I think provides an interesting little window onto the evolution of sanitary products in this country.

[00:01:32] Fascinating. And I mean that genuinely.

[00:01:35] Yeah. I mean, I think the history of how we talk about women's health is really interesting, A. And I also think the advertising is interesting, you know, the way that these products are marketed to women and how that's changed.

[00:01:47] Yeah, maybe we should do a bonus episode at some point.

[00:01:50] Oh, totally. Yes, I would love to. So elsewhere in this issue, we've got glamour. We've got betrayal. We've got DIY flip flops.

[00:02:00] Oh my God. Incredible.

[00:02:05] Yep. So we kick off with a glimpse into the high life. We've got a wealthy young bachelor looking for love. Could you be the next lucky lady to get picked up in his Aston Martin? Stay tuned to find out.

[00:02:18] We've got our fashion and beauty tips. And then coming up later in the episode, we're going to be discussing how common it used to be for magazines to include sewing and knitting patterns and how much that's changed.

[00:02:29] Oh, yes. I love that. From tablecloths to tradwives, how feminism shaped our hobbies.

[00:02:37] Or, as I like to think of it, crafting under capitalism.

[00:02:41] Wow. I can't wait to get stuck in.

[00:02:45] Let's check out this week's cover lines.

[00:02:48] How to give meat a built-in bonus.

[00:02:51] Intrigued? Go on.

[00:02:52] We're giving away 30 gold charm bracelets with our dreamy double perfume offer.

[00:02:57] Perfume and charm bracelets in one go.

[00:02:59] Giveaways on top of giveaways.

[00:03:02] And then the final cover line, yes, there are only three.

[00:03:06] Free inside a big sheet of, look!

[00:03:11] Foil-edged cooking film.

[00:03:14] I have questions.

[00:03:16] Unfortunately, the problem with vintage magazines is the freebies are no longer included.

[00:03:21] So we will never know what this big sheet of foil-edged cooking film actually looked like or what purpose it served.

[00:03:30] We only have a very small little photo on the front cover.

[00:03:34] It's a picture of a roasting tray.

[00:03:36] And I'm going to say that is a joint...

[00:03:39] I'm going to say it's a ham.

[00:03:41] It could be gammon.

[00:03:42] I think it's definitely...

[00:03:43] It could be pork.

[00:03:44] Maybe it's lamb.

[00:03:45] Do you know what?

[00:03:46] I don't...

[00:03:49] No, I'm sticking with pork.

[00:03:50] I'm sticking with pork.

[00:03:52] Welcome to Guess the Meats with Lucy and Frankie.

[00:03:55] Anyway, let me talk you through the cover.

[00:03:58] So our model on the cover could not be more delighted with her sheet of cooking foil.

[00:04:04] She is young and fresh-faced as they always are.

[00:04:07] She's got some lovely no-makeup makeup.

[00:04:10] And I think I'm seeing a little tinge of white on the waterline there.

[00:04:18] Okay.

[00:04:19] Her glossy honey blonde hair is tied in bunches, Lucy.

[00:04:24] Bunches.

[00:04:24] On an adult woman.

[00:04:27] Gosh.

[00:04:27] And actually, her whole vibe, I would say her whole vibe from her hair to her smile

[00:04:32] is very Olivia Newton-John.

[00:04:35] Okay.

[00:04:35] Maybe a touch of Brady Bunch too, which should be giving you some clues as to sort of what

[00:04:40] date we might be landing on here.

[00:04:43] Yeah.

[00:04:44] She's wearing a red, pink and green crochet jumper, a bold colourway, I think we can agree.

[00:04:48] But if you do feel like making one for yourself, the pattern is obviously provided in this magazine.

[00:04:53] I would expect nothing less.

[00:04:55] So she's got that on with some pale pink slacks and she's smiling coyly from behind one arm with a look that says,

[00:05:02] I know how to give me to built-in bonus.

[00:05:05] Anyway, are we narrowing it down?

[00:05:07] It is November 1972 and we are reading Woman's Own.

[00:05:15] Okay.

[00:05:16] Great.

[00:05:17] This is the earliest one we've done, right?

[00:05:20] It's the earliest one we've done and it is...

[00:05:22] I'd love to say that this was entirely strategic on our part, but it wasn't, was it?

[00:05:28] But this is going to be a real vibe shift from New Woman, which we looked at in the last episode.

[00:05:34] Yeah.

[00:05:35] I'm sensing the vibe shift.

[00:05:37] As you may have deduced, there aren't actually that many features in this magazine.

[00:05:42] There is a lot of fiction though.

[00:05:45] Three short stories.

[00:05:46] And of course, as you would expect, there is a lot of domestic and cooking tips.

[00:05:52] Let's talk about 1972 briefly because very interesting time.

[00:05:57] We're in November with this issue, but the year started off in January.

[00:06:02] We'd had Bloody Sunday.

[00:06:03] Wow.

[00:06:04] Okay.

[00:06:04] Which is when British soldiers shot 26 unarmed civilians during a protest march in Northern Ireland.

[00:06:09] Around that same time in Great Britain,

[00:06:12] coal miners went on strike officially for the first time since the 20s.

[00:06:16] And obviously that's going to be a theme for the next decade or so.

[00:06:19] But 1972 was the first one.

[00:06:21] Wow.

[00:06:21] Okay.

[00:06:22] And that strike lasted six weeks and it was awful.

[00:06:26] Like there were power cuts up to like nine hours a day because at this point,

[00:06:30] something like 75% of Britain's electricity came from coal.

[00:06:33] And it was bad to the point that the PM at the time, Ted Heath, declared a state of emergency.

[00:06:39] Wow.

[00:06:39] Yeah.

[00:06:40] Things were not great.

[00:06:41] Unemployment was high, not related to unemployment, but just as a sort of interesting little note.

[00:06:46] We'd introduced decimalisation the year before.

[00:06:49] We'd moved from, you know, pounds, shillings and pence to pounds and pence as we have now.

[00:06:55] On the cover of Women's Own, it just says 6p.

[00:06:58] Sounds like a bargain.

[00:06:59] I know.

[00:07:00] 6p for your free big sheet of foil-edged cooking film.

[00:07:04] No.

[00:07:04] No.

[00:07:05] Well, we'd have to compare that with how much a sheet of foil-edged cooking film would cost

[00:07:08] in the shops at the time to know...

[00:07:11] We would.

[00:07:11] ...how much of a bargain you were getting.

[00:07:13] If anyone's got any intel on that, please do get in touch with the show.

[00:07:16] We would love to hear from people who were using foil-edged cooking film in 1972, who can provide an oral history.

[00:07:23] Yeah.

[00:07:24] 1972 was a great year for culture, though.

[00:07:26] If you were a cinema goer, you might have been to see The Godfather, A Clockwork Orange, or maybe Cabaret.

[00:07:31] Wow.

[00:07:32] Okay.

[00:07:33] Some big hitters.

[00:07:34] Yeah.

[00:07:34] Music-wise, you were probably listening to T-Rex, Roxy Music, David Bowie, Al Green, Elton John.

[00:07:42] Stevie Wonder had not one but two albums out that year, so you definitely would have been hearing Superstition on the radio.

[00:07:48] The Taylor Swift of his day.

[00:07:49] Stevie's version.

[00:07:51] But let's be honest, if you're reading Women's Own, you were probably listening to Slade.

[00:07:56] Yeah.

[00:07:57] And also, we've touched, in previous episodes, we've touched a bit on the gap between, you know, what we think of now as the culturally significant moments in modern history, and then actually what the day-to-day concerns in people's lives were.

[00:08:11] And I think we really get that with this magazine.

[00:08:15] Like, we really feel that gap.

[00:08:18] So, as some examples, 1972 was the year that Ugandan President Idi Amin expelled the country's South Asian population.

[00:08:27] He basically gave them 90 days to leave, and so it's estimated that between August and November of that year, around 40,000 Ugandan Asian people came to the UK.

[00:08:36] Obviously, you won't see that in the pages of Women's Own.

[00:08:39] No.

[00:08:40] 1972 was also the year of the UK's first Gay Pride March.

[00:08:43] Oh, cool.

[00:08:44] Yeah.

[00:08:45] Something else that's unsurprisingly absent from this mag.

[00:08:48] The first issue of Spare Rib magazine was published that year.

[00:08:53] Iconic feminist publication, which, you know, maybe we'll come back to on MagHags.

[00:08:58] Yeah.

[00:08:59] So, yes, second wave feminism was absolutely popping off, or women's lib, as they called it at the time.

[00:09:07] And yet...

[00:09:08] And yet.

[00:09:09] And yet, here we are.

[00:09:11] Here we are with our cooking foil.

[00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:14] A very big introduction to 1972, but with all that in mind, are you ready to go inside this issue?

[00:09:19] Yes, I am.

[00:09:22] The world's most wanted bachelor.

[00:09:25] Who could we be talking about?

[00:09:28] Shall I read you the stand first?

[00:09:30] Yes, please.

[00:09:31] Yes.

[00:09:31] He's the world's most eligible bachelor.

[00:09:34] Rich, 24 next week, handsome, and heir to the throne.

[00:09:42] Yes, listeners, it is then Prince Charles, now King Charles.

[00:09:48] And this is an entire feature.

[00:09:50] I would say there's probably about 1500 words dedicated to who Prince Charles may or may not be dating.

[00:09:58] Yeah, it's a long list of aristocratic women.

[00:10:03] It literally is.

[00:10:04] So my favourite posher, I really liked Bettina and her beatnik existence in Paris.

[00:10:10] I had quite a vivid picture of who Bettina is based on those few words.

[00:10:15] There's a real energy of a goldsmith graduate who lives in Peckham and is very loudly into Jeremy Corbyn and calls everybody comrade.

[00:10:25] But like, actually, her parents pay her rent.

[00:10:28] So she used to live what she called a beatnik existence in Paris when she was studying drama.

[00:10:34] But she's now a student teacher.

[00:10:36] Oh, okay.

[00:10:37] But she still goes for way out clothes.

[00:10:40] Wonder what way out clothes means when you're a member of the aristocracy in 1972.

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:46] I'd really like to see this way out wardrobe.

[00:10:48] Important things we learn about Prince Charles from this article.

[00:10:55] He's not fussy about what he eats or drinks.

[00:10:58] A steak or grilled chops will do very nicely.

[00:11:01] He probably quite liked that joint of ham on the cover there in the foil-edged cooking film.

[00:11:07] He prefers blondes, but not dumb blondes.

[00:11:11] Oh, wow.

[00:11:12] We really are in 1972, aren't we?

[00:11:14] Yeah, we really are.

[00:11:15] I think one of the things I really enjoyed about this feature is that it sort of starts by talking about, you know, Charles's lifestyle and his hobbies, according to the journalist.

[00:11:26] There's two journalists on this, Paula James and Gerda Paul.

[00:11:30] And then it sort of describes and lists women he actually knows and is friends with.

[00:11:36] And there's quite a lot of pictures of him sort of at the polo with people getting into cars, chatting to people out and about at public events.

[00:11:43] So there's a lot of women in this feature who are genuinely friends of his and it's telling you a bit about them and whether or not they have dated.

[00:11:50] And then towards the end, there's a subheading that just says suitable princesses.

[00:11:57] It's basically just a list of all the European princesses who are in their 20s, who I don't think are actually kind of prospective girlfriends, but it's just like, here are some princesses that are available.

[00:12:11] One of the princesses who might be thought eligible is Princess Xenia, the 21-year-old daughter of Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia.

[00:12:20] Wow, Prussia.

[00:12:21] She and Prince Charles met each other at the wedding of King Constantine of Greece.

[00:12:26] And it was rumoured at the time that he'd taken a fancy to her.

[00:12:28] I mean, that literally means they said hello, doesn't it?

[00:12:31] Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:33] These people barely know each other.

[00:12:35] And then from there, it just kind of doesn't even bother to suggest they might have met, never mind got on.

[00:12:41] It's just listing princesses after that.

[00:12:43] There's one very conspicuous absence from this long list of women, though, isn't there?

[00:12:49] A very conspicuous absence because Charles and Camilla started dating in 1972.

[00:12:57] But clearly our reporters were not up on that piece of royal gossip yet.

[00:13:02] So I wondered if they weren't up on the royal gossip or I wondered if she was deliberately absent from the feature.

[00:13:12] I wondered if there had been some sort of like briefing to press that she was not to be mentioned.

[00:13:19] I think it's interesting that she's not mentioned.

[00:13:22] And so I'm going to give some credence to that theory, yes, because they had actually known each other for a bit.

[00:13:30] The sort of point at which they supposedly acknowledged they fancied each other, I guess, whether or not they actively started dating or not,

[00:13:39] is kind of put at 1972 when they met at a party.

[00:13:43] But they had been running in similar circles for a couple of years, it seems like.

[00:13:47] And so the fact that she's not even mentioned as a maybe does seem a bit conspicuous, doesn't it?

[00:13:52] Yeah, I thought so.

[00:13:54] Because they've literally listed every other woman he's ever met, including some princesses that he might not have.

[00:14:02] So one thing I really thought about this feature was that it felt very like, oh, look at what a normal human being the heir to the throne is.

[00:14:12] He's just like one of us, really.

[00:14:14] He's not fussy about what he eats or drinks.

[00:14:16] Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:17] And the other bit, I really like that detail about him popping to the theatre on a whim.

[00:14:21] And he'll sometimes end up in one of those shitty, like obstructed view seats because that's all that's left.

[00:14:27] I mean, it's a beautifully convenient anecdote that sort of paints this very likable, relatable portrait of him.

[00:14:35] You know, he's spontaneous, he likes the arts, but he's modest and doesn't want special treatment.

[00:14:42] Yeah, it's definitely his view of himself as well, isn't it?

[00:14:45] You know, it's sort of like he enjoys the hard game of polo, but he also likes to be on his own,

[00:14:49] calling for his Labrador bindi, simply walking out of the house for long walks.

[00:14:53] Like, he's just a down-to-earth guy who likes walking his dark Lucy.

[00:14:57] Yeah.

[00:14:57] He does also take dates on board the Royal Yacht, so let's have a little bit of perspective here.

[00:15:03] Yeah, fair enough.

[00:15:04] I did also think to myself, like reading that, even as a lie,

[00:15:09] they wouldn't have been able to claim that Prince William or Prince Harry did anything like that,

[00:15:14] just like popped along to the theatre.

[00:15:16] And that, just that kind of little line to give a bit of a glimpse into like how times have changed,

[00:15:24] our like obsession with celebrity in general and the Royals as celebrities.

[00:15:29] I mean, they're the OG celebrities really, aren't they?

[00:15:31] Yeah.

[00:15:32] Well, I think that's, I think it's quite interesting in terms of where the Royals are at with their public image

[00:15:40] and where the public is at with their interest in the Royals.

[00:15:43] So, in 1969, the Royal Family had made a documentary with the BBC,

[00:15:48] which was kind of in an effort to present themselves as a normal family.

[00:15:53] Like it was very much sort of like home video style footage,

[00:15:57] even though it was obviously like BBC production.

[00:16:00] And it was wildly popular.

[00:16:02] Like people absolutely loved it.

[00:16:04] They were really, really here for this version of the Royal Family,

[00:16:07] to the point that it was actually aired again on TV in 1972.

[00:16:13] But it's never been shown again since.

[00:16:16] And there's a popular rumour that the Queen massively regretted doing it.

[00:16:20] But I have now seen various Royal Biographers say in different places

[00:16:25] that that wasn't actually the case.

[00:16:26] It was more that it was just supposed to be a one-off

[00:16:30] and not something that got trotted out over and over again every time they wanted footage.

[00:16:34] And obviously the Royal Family had control over the copyright.

[00:16:37] But yeah, so I think because of that,

[00:16:40] I think the tone of this article is very sort of the everyday life of Prince Charles.

[00:16:46] It's very in keeping with that and what people wanted.

[00:16:50] And I feel I'm getting the impression that it is very much the sort of thing

[00:16:55] that the readers of Women's Own would be interested in.

[00:16:59] The way it's worded is a little bit as though we might,

[00:17:04] we could be in the running.

[00:17:06] We the readers could be in the running if only we were in the right place at the right time.

[00:17:10] Because the way it describes what he would do,

[00:17:13] you know, if you were dating Prince Charles, this is what it might be like.

[00:17:16] That's how this sort of feature opens.

[00:17:19] So it says,

[00:17:33] So do you know what I mean?

[00:17:41] The way it's all phrased is very much sort of putting me, the reader,

[00:17:44] it's like, oh, it could be, it could be me.

[00:17:47] This is what you can expect when you date Prince Charles.

[00:17:51] Yes.

[00:17:51] Which is good.

[00:17:52] I mean, I want to be prepared, you know,

[00:17:54] I don't want to go into that blind.

[00:17:56] I feel like that happened with Prince William as well.

[00:18:00] There was a definite trend in journalism

[00:18:02] where there was like a very acute interest in his love life.

[00:18:06] I remember feeling that there was this whiff of like, it could be you.

[00:18:10] No, there absolutely was.

[00:18:12] And there were loads of stories about all of the women who applied to St. Andrews

[00:18:17] specifically so that they would be there at the same time as him.

[00:18:20] And, you know, he did marry a commoner in inverted commas.

[00:18:25] Who he met at university.

[00:18:26] Who he met at university.

[00:18:27] People say, oh, it could never happen to me.

[00:18:29] It happened to Kate.

[00:18:30] Yeah.

[00:18:30] So it's not that far fetched.

[00:18:33] If that's your bag.

[00:18:34] Like, I mean, personally, I couldn't think of anything worse.

[00:18:37] That tone of like, it could be you.

[00:18:40] What I've come down on is like, it's really just for fun.

[00:18:43] I don't think Prince Charles was a heartthrob in any, by any sensible measure.

[00:18:50] But I think it's just a more fun way of writing the feature.

[00:18:53] Oh yeah, for sure.

[00:18:54] I've never like heard any reference in anything that he was like once totty.

[00:19:01] I'm obsessed with the word totty now after New Woman.

[00:19:04] And I particularly like the incongruousness of cracking it out in 1972 to describe 24-year-old Prince Charles.

[00:19:14] Hot totty.

[00:19:16] Hot Windsor totty.

[00:19:21] Lucy, my sanitary belt is really uncomfortable.

[00:19:24] I feel like one of the pins that's kind of undone.

[00:19:26] I'm going to have to go to the loo and sort myself out.

[00:19:29] Oh my God, Frankie, it's 1972.

[00:19:31] Why are you still using sanitary belts?

[00:19:33] Free yourself from menstrual oppression.

[00:19:36] All right, Jermaine Greer.

[00:19:37] But what else am I supposed to do?

[00:19:39] You need to try La Bresse.

[00:19:40] It needs no pins and no belt.

[00:19:43] Unlike your present sanitary towel.

[00:19:45] Really?

[00:19:46] No pins?

[00:19:47] No belts?

[00:19:48] No special panties?

[00:19:49] Nope.

[00:19:50] It's held in place by a tiny but highly effective adhesive area pressed against your close-fitting panties.

[00:19:56] It's half as thick as ordinary sanitary towels but equally absorbent.

[00:20:00] Wow.

[00:20:01] La Bresse really does tick all my boxes.

[00:20:03] But wait, is it flushable?

[00:20:05] Completely flushable.

[00:20:07] Without tearing, folding or pulling apart, which will definitely not cause massive environmental and plumbing issues and then require decades of information campaigns to dial back from.

[00:20:17] Oh, thanks, Lucy.

[00:20:18] This really is going to make my periods less bother than ever before.

[00:20:24] Maman, what is the secret to looking beautiful?

[00:20:27] Cherie, a man will always prefer you to be natural.

[00:20:30] But, in my experience, nature has always needed an helping ant.

[00:20:36] I know how you value your complexion as a prized possession.

[00:20:39] Please tell me what to do.

[00:20:41] Well, I practice my Vichy ritual every morning and evening.

[00:20:45] I start by cleansing the skin thoroughly, then reawaken the tissues.

[00:20:51] After that, it's time for the tonic lotion to tone up the tissues, keep my circulation vibrant and keep blotches at bay.

[00:20:58] And are there different milks and tonics, lotions and creams for different skin types?

[00:21:03] Bien sûr!

[00:21:04] You can rely on Vichy.

[00:21:06] They've been making cosmetics from the purest ingredients under strict conditions of strict hygiene for generations of French women.

[00:21:14] I can't wait to find the beauty lying under my skin.

[00:21:17] But, can I tell my English friends?

[00:21:20] Of course!

[00:21:21] Why should French daughters have the monopoly on good advice?

[00:21:26] Can we just talk about I can't wait to find the beauty lying under my skin?

[00:21:30] How fucking creepy is that?

[00:21:33] That's very creepy.

[00:21:36] Also, I feel like we need to issue an apology to the whole of France.

[00:21:42] We actually do have some French listeners as well.

[00:21:47] Not anymore, we don't.

[00:21:50] Oh, God, no.

[00:21:52] Guys, seriously, nous sommes désolés.

[00:21:55] I promise we'll go back to talking about how much we idealise you.

[00:22:00] But that advert is so fucking funny.

[00:22:02] I just absolutely couldn't help going to town.

[00:22:07] My husband can't resist other women.

[00:22:09] Dun, dun, dun.

[00:22:11] Yet I Still Love Him.

[00:22:13] Our intimate series about women who go on loving against the odds.

[00:22:17] So it sounds like there are going to be a series of these features in Women's Own,

[00:22:23] entitled Yet I Still Love Him.

[00:22:24] And then each week, a woman describes her really shit relationship

[00:22:28] and why she's still in it, essentially.

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:31] I mean, I'm not going to lie.

[00:22:32] This feature made me profoundly sad.

[00:22:35] Yeah, it was a weird one, wasn't it?

[00:22:36] So it also says, by Mrs. Anne Gordon.

[00:22:39] But I think we can be very sure that Mrs. Anne Gordon did not write this.

[00:22:46] It's not even her real name, as is the norm with a lot of these stories.

[00:22:50] The names get changed.

[00:22:52] But this is the kind of story that would be an as-told-to,

[00:22:55] which is where the person whose story it is relays it to the journalist

[00:22:59] who writes it up as a first-person narrative.

[00:23:02] So that is what we are looking at here.

[00:23:04] So Mrs. Anne Gordon, I'm just going to call her Anne from now on

[00:23:10] because we're going to get quite familiar with her.

[00:23:13] She married a man who basically is a serial cheater.

[00:23:18] And at first, he would deny it and she would sort of look the other way.

[00:23:25] And then after a while, he just stopped denying it,

[00:23:29] but would always sort of come back with,

[00:23:31] but I'm in love with you, you're my wife, don't be jealous,

[00:23:36] this person meant nothing to me.

[00:23:39] And then it sort of just goes from there, you know,

[00:23:42] just because he just keeps cheating and she keeps saying,

[00:23:46] you know, I can't stand it, I'm going to leave you.

[00:23:49] And he keeps saying, no, my darling, you know, there's a line.

[00:23:52] He soothes me gently, tenderly, lovingly.

[00:23:55] He assured me it would never happen again.

[00:23:57] This was the first and last time he'd been unfaithful,

[00:24:00] all this sort of thing.

[00:24:01] And then it just keeps happening, keeps happening.

[00:24:03] And at one point, he even invites a woman he's been shagging

[00:24:09] to dinner with them.

[00:24:12] And she has to basically make and serve dinner to this woman.

[00:24:16] And this woman's husband and his business partner,

[00:24:19] like inexplicably, and both of them speak very poor English.

[00:24:23] Yes.

[00:24:24] So they're Dutch.

[00:24:26] Anne's husband, Peter, and his, in inverted commas, colleague,

[00:24:31] disappear off outside, possibly for cigarettes.

[00:24:34] But obviously, we know there's more going on.

[00:24:36] And she's basically left with these two men she doesn't know,

[00:24:39] who speak very little English.

[00:24:41] And she's just sort of supposed to, like, keep on a bright smile and, you know,

[00:24:47] get the pudding out and the coffees.

[00:24:49] I mean, that's what made me so sad about this feature.

[00:24:53] He's just so, like, careless with her feelings.

[00:24:56] And then, yeah, he, like, fully humiliates her in that instance.

[00:25:01] And after that particular incident, it says,

[00:25:04] when at last they left, I spun around on Peter and really let fly.

[00:25:08] He seemed honestly surprised.

[00:25:10] Good heavens, what are a few kisses, he said.

[00:25:13] I told you it was nothing serious and there isn't.

[00:25:16] Frederick didn't seem to mind, did he?

[00:25:18] Frederick is this woman's husband that she'd brought to the dinner.

[00:25:22] You're blowing this out of all proportion.

[00:25:24] I mean, it's not as if I flirt behind your back, is it?

[00:25:26] So he's gone from sleeping with other people behind her back

[00:25:29] to sleeping with people, confessing and promising never to do it again,

[00:25:35] to now saying, wouldn't you rather I slept with people and you knew about it?

[00:25:39] Yeah.

[00:25:39] So it goes on like this.

[00:25:41] And she toys with whether or not she should leave.

[00:25:44] You know, I decided I'd leave in my own time

[00:25:46] because I had to make plans for Tony and myself.

[00:25:48] This is the thing, they've got a child, Tony.

[00:25:50] He then gets a job in the Middle East and they spend three years out there.

[00:25:56] And she says, I remember them as happy years because I love the hot sunshine.

[00:26:00] The social life was good and I can enjoy it because we had a nanny,

[00:26:03] a cook and a houseboy.

[00:26:04] Okay, right.

[00:26:06] Likes life in the Middle East.

[00:26:07] Above all, Peter had no serious affairs there.

[00:26:11] Oh, he flirted outrageously.

[00:26:12] And sometimes his behaviour to me in public was humiliating.

[00:26:16] We would go to a dance together and halfway through the evening,

[00:26:18] he would be dancing cheek to cheek with someone else.

[00:26:20] They would disappear and I would be left to find my own way home.

[00:26:23] But gradually I learnt to deal with this sort of situation.

[00:26:25] Oh, it's heartbreaking.

[00:26:28] Oh, Anne.

[00:26:29] And then they moved back to England.

[00:26:30] She says a rather bleak town on the East Coast,

[00:26:33] desperate to know which one, and stayed there for seven years.

[00:26:36] And then she was really miserable because she didn't have the same social life.

[00:26:39] She was back to obviously keeping house and raising the children all by herself.

[00:26:44] And he was now back in the UK,

[00:26:46] forging ahead in his career and had a lot more opportunity to have affairs.

[00:26:51] So yeah, really feeling for Anne.

[00:26:53] Why do we think she really stayed in the marriage?

[00:26:57] I feel like, so right, like early on,

[00:27:00] it says when she realises he first cheats on her and it's not long after they got married.

[00:27:06] You know, he's like, he's this bright young executive.

[00:27:08] He's 24.

[00:27:10] So we can assume that she was probably about a similar-ish age when they got married,

[00:27:16] maybe a year or two younger.

[00:27:18] She also says that they've been married for 22 years.

[00:27:22] So give or take, she's been in this relationship half her life.

[00:27:27] So I think that sort of situation is often like the reason you stay is because you don't really know what not staying might look like.

[00:27:38] Yeah. I mean, I think definitely security.

[00:27:42] And that's kind of implicit in what you've just said.

[00:27:46] Probably money.

[00:27:47] It's clear he's earning pretty well.

[00:27:49] Like the way she talks about his career going from strength to strength.

[00:27:52] I feel like he's making plenty of money.

[00:27:54] There's an element of her enjoying the lifestyle.

[00:27:57] She certainly enjoys the years they spend in the Middle East with his job.

[00:28:01] I wonder whether there's also, because there are moments when she talks about the times they have together and he'll kind of really treat her to, you know, he'll do something like a grand gesture.

[00:28:13] And there seems to be, even when they have their bust-ups, there's a lot of passion.

[00:28:18] She'll say, how could you do this?

[00:28:19] I thought you loved me.

[00:28:20] And he's like, I do.

[00:28:21] You're the only person I've ever truly loved.

[00:28:24] I definitely think there's a real like codependence there.

[00:28:26] Like she's, he is awful to her, but he's not exclusively awful to her.

[00:28:32] She definitely like gets bits of his kind of passion and his love.

[00:28:40] And yeah, when he's, when he is shining the light on her, it's shining very bright.

[00:28:45] And so is there a bit of like Don and Betty Draper in here maybe?

[00:28:51] Yes.

[00:28:51] Oh my God.

[00:28:52] Yes.

[00:28:53] Yes.

[00:28:53] I thought that so, like I had that exact thought when I was reading it for the first time.

[00:28:58] Oh, did you?

[00:28:59] Yeah.

[00:28:59] Yeah.

[00:29:00] Because I think there is also a real strong sense, like reading between the lines of this,

[00:29:04] like she doesn't explicitly say it, but certainly reading between the lines, there's a sense in it that she is fucking bored.

[00:29:12] She's like really dissatisfied with the life of being a housewife.

[00:29:17] And that kind of tracks with the fact that when they go and work in the middle, in this, in this like undefined location in the Middle East,

[00:29:26] she's having a lovely time because she doesn't have to do any of the like drudgery of being a housewife.

[00:29:32] She can just go to parties and go to the fucking bridge club.

[00:29:36] She's got an expat crew.

[00:29:39] She can just have a nice time.

[00:29:41] Whereas the situation she's in in the UK, it feels so lonely.

[00:29:47] Yeah, it does sound really lonely.

[00:29:49] And there's just this real like inequality in that.

[00:29:53] And it was a really interesting kind of window into the lives of a certain demographic of women at that time in the middle of the 20th century.

[00:30:06] And how far we've come.

[00:30:08] But by the end, Anne has sort of, she's made her peace with it.

[00:30:15] Basically, he has had quite a serious affair that has broken off.

[00:30:21] And he's actually been quite cut up about it and quite depressed for a while.

[00:30:28] It goes on and describes sort of how he seems to be returning to his normal self.

[00:30:33] She says,

[00:30:34] Lately too, I've even seen him giving an appreciative eye to a woman student.

[00:30:39] And do you know, I've actually been glad to see him switch on the old charm.

[00:30:45] He is fast recovering.

[00:30:47] And I just, yeah, I thought that was quite interesting that she got to a point where she was like,

[00:30:51] Oh, thank God he's feeling better.

[00:30:53] Like he's flirting with people again.

[00:30:55] I recognize him again, finally.

[00:30:57] It could also be slight like Stockholm syndrome.

[00:30:59] Like she's been, the whole time she's been married to him, he's behaved in a certain way.

[00:31:05] And that's been the case for like two decades.

[00:31:09] And then he stopped behaving like that.

[00:31:12] And that really threw her.

[00:31:14] The feature is certainly inviting us as readers to speculate.

[00:31:17] We are supposed to have a lot of opinions about what's really going on in this relationship.

[00:31:23] That's part of what the, where the enjoyment comes for us as the readers.

[00:31:26] You know, real life stories like this are so popular.

[00:31:31] Like they are still so popular.

[00:31:32] I've written loads of these types of stories.

[00:31:36] I would say that they, like you get them everywhere.

[00:31:39] Everywhere from like newspapers to the sort of like weekly mags to glossy mags.

[00:31:45] You get this kind of feature.

[00:31:48] And particularly these kinds of stories, like, well, I'm calling them love rat stories.

[00:31:53] Because that's what we used to call them when I went in tabloids.

[00:31:56] And I guess I'm interested to know, like, why do you think we love these kinds of stories so much?

[00:32:01] Why would women's own readers have enjoyed reading your story?

[00:32:05] And why do we still love these kinds of stories?

[00:32:07] I think we're just always going to be like, I think we are always and have always been and will always be like endlessly fascinated by other people's lives and relationships.

[00:32:18] And like the real sort of vulnerabilities of people that you, that we don't see when we just kind of meet them for a conversation in the street or whatever.

[00:32:27] I think that fascination is part of like the human condition, right?

[00:32:31] Because that's why like so much art is concerned with the interiors of people relationships.

[00:32:38] I also think that we all want to know like the grubby details of the bad stuff so that we can spot it if it's going to happen to us.

[00:32:50] Yes. And there's kind of a, like, maybe if things are a bit iffy in your relationship, there's a real thrill in hearing about somebody else's far more tempestuous marriage.

[00:33:00] Exactly.

[00:33:01] The way I imagine it is readers of women's own sitting down in their own imperfect marriages and feeling like, you know, oh, well, God, mine doesn't look so bad after all kind of vibe.

[00:33:15] I think like, apart from anything else, this is a cautionary tale. Don't get married while your frontal lobe is still developing.

[00:33:23] Like, I don't think it's wise to make any rest of your life decision before the age of 25.

[00:33:30] But, you know, if you do insist on it, approach with extreme caution.

[00:33:36] Hello, Frankie here. Just a quick one to say, if you have not yet signed up for our newsletter, you definitely should.

[00:33:42] You can read the features we talk about, see all the amazing vintage adverts and get access to loads of other bonus bits.

[00:33:49] Plus, it's a really good way to support the show. Find us at maghags.substack.com.

[00:34:00] Your fashion tip of the week.

[00:34:02] Are you ready?

[00:34:04] Get a hat.

[00:34:06] Any old hat?

[00:34:07] No, not any old hat. But the hats are big fashion headline news this autumn, according to Women's Own.

[00:34:14] For those of us who've rarely worn a hat before, it will be a treat.

[00:34:18] They really pull an outfit together.

[00:34:20] Is that what it says? For those of us who've barely worn a hat before?

[00:34:23] It will be a treat. Yes.

[00:34:26] Frankie, I regret to inform you, but I look good in a hat. Hatsuit me.

[00:34:32] Why do you regret to inform me? I'm delighted about that.

[00:34:34] Because it's a little bit braggy, but yeah, I have rocked many a hat over the years and managed to pull them off.

[00:34:45] Oh, well, this is the fashion feature for you. So here are some options for you, Lucy.

[00:34:50] You can look pretty as picture with a flattering felt hat with a wavy wide brim.

[00:34:57] Very 70s. Love that.

[00:35:00] You can get a Dr. Zhivago style fur hat. You could try a beret.

[00:35:06] Yeah.

[00:35:07] A turban is very much an elegant hat that will give you style and grace and confidence.

[00:35:13] Although it did actually say on the first page, this year's favourite is the head-hugging turban.

[00:35:19] But for some, this style is too stark.

[00:35:22] So, proceed with caution on the turban. Otherwise, you can wear a pull-on hat. I'm not sure what other kind of hat there is.

[00:35:33] One that birds come and place on your head.

[00:35:37] Yes. Or you can veil yourself in this utterly feminine hat with silver circlets, if you feel like being alluring and mysterious.

[00:35:46] I quite like the circlet one. It's almost got a bit of a pillar box sort of vibe, that hat, with a little veil sort of attached to it.

[00:35:54] With a little veil. Do you feel like being alluring and mysterious?

[00:35:58] Oh God, I've never been alluring and mysterious in my life.

[00:36:02] Maybe this hat is going to help you on your way.

[00:36:05] Beauty tip of the week. You need to aim to look provocatively feminine.

[00:36:10] This is from a feature where the headline is,

[00:36:13] Let's Face It, which, see what they've done there.

[00:36:16] When we're tired of ruby lips, rainbow eyes, dotty makeups, which may be in fashion but aren't always flattering,

[00:36:21] what we want most of all is a look that is provocatively feminine.

[00:36:25] Diana Day picks two makeups that are right for all skin tones.

[00:36:29] And once again, as with our Good Housekeeping episode,

[00:36:33] when they say all skin tones,

[00:36:35] we have a blonde and we have a brunette.

[00:36:39] They're both white.

[00:36:40] Both of them, in fact, have blue eyes.

[00:36:42] Anyway, so the way to look provocatively feminine, as far as I can tell,

[00:36:46] is to do a sort of no makeup makeup look.

[00:36:49] Yeah, I was going to say that what they've got there is what we would now call like the sort of

[00:36:55] barely there look or yeah, no makeup makeup.

[00:36:57] There's just like a little hint of mascara, a bit of gloss on the lips.

[00:37:02] Very skinny brows, both of them.

[00:37:04] Very skinny brows, aren't they?

[00:37:06] Which is interesting because as we know from Honey 1976, eyebrows are coming back, ladies.

[00:37:13] In four years' time, eyebrows are going to be back, so you better start growing them out.

[00:37:17] I have to say, being able to chart the entire history of 20th century brow fashion

[00:37:24] wasn't something I necessarily expected to get out of making this podcast,

[00:37:28] but it's an unexpected bonus.

[00:37:35] 101 things to make for pleasure and profit.

[00:37:38] This feature's adorable.

[00:37:41] Here's a great new series to wipe boredom out of your life.

[00:37:44] Whatever your hobby, you'll find a bumper crop of craft ideas which can save or make money for you

[00:37:49] or for local bazaars and fates.

[00:37:51] To say nothing of the lovely Christmas presents you'll be able to give.

[00:37:55] You could even set up a business on your own.

[00:37:57] Uh-oh, side hustle.

[00:37:59] Don't monetize your hobbies.

[00:38:01] And then, this is quite an extraordinary bit of copy coming up now.

[00:38:04] Start on these wantable things now.

[00:38:07] Winter will pass in a flash.

[00:38:09] Wantable.

[00:38:10] Wantable.

[00:38:11] Wow.

[00:38:11] So there aren't 101 in this feature.

[00:38:14] It sounds like this is the first in the series and there will be eventually 101 across the next few issues.

[00:38:20] So among the craft ideas, we've got things like decorating some hair clips,

[00:38:26] sort of personalizing them, personalizing your hairbrush and combs.

[00:38:32] There's some sort of more standard ideas like a pattern for making a skirt, crochet a beret.

[00:38:41] Quite like the crochet beret.

[00:38:43] It is cute.

[00:38:44] Some sort of recipes and tips for making like coconut, ice candy, spicy fruit, mincemeat.

[00:38:50] So it's sort of, you know, like pickles and chutneys, that sort of thing.

[00:38:53] But then you've also got things like weave a stool.

[00:38:58] Simply.

[00:38:59] Simply weave a stool.

[00:39:01] Make a lace tablecloth.

[00:39:03] Here you go.

[00:39:04] Here's how to make a lace tablecloth.

[00:39:05] Off you go.

[00:39:06] Sure.

[00:39:06] Okay.

[00:39:07] Yeah, but my absolute favorite is fun flip sandals made for a snip.

[00:39:15] Here's a pretty soulful pair of flip flops that are fun for wearing around the house.

[00:39:20] To make them, all you need are three pairs of cheap flip flop sandals in contrasting colors.

[00:39:25] Remove the toe straps from two of the pairs and stick the three souls together with rubber solution to create the stacked look.

[00:39:32] Leave to dry thoroughly.

[00:39:34] I like that it hasn't, that's not a huge amount of confidence in that method if you're only supposed to wear them around the house.

[00:39:43] But like, what a lot of effort for something to wear around the house.

[00:39:48] I have to say, I did, as I was reading these features, I had like an increasing, a sort of growing sense of like what this magazine is and who it's speaking to and who it's audience is.

[00:40:01] So like, in contrast to Honey, which really seemed to assume that its readers lived in London.

[00:40:06] And if they didn't, then that was something like to remark upon.

[00:40:10] This magazine like feels so suburban.

[00:40:13] It's giving Small C Conservative.

[00:40:16] It's giving like church jumble sale.

[00:40:20] It's giving Victoria Sponge for the Women's Institute.

[00:40:22] It's giving like Queen Elizabeth II, like commemorative teapot.

[00:40:28] Lovely hanging baskets, Barbara.

[00:40:31] Like that's where we are with this magazine.

[00:40:33] Yes.

[00:40:34] And rather like Mrs. Anne Gordon of our previous feature, the readers are people who are at home.

[00:40:42] Yeah.

[00:40:42] Possibly with children.

[00:40:43] But equally, the children might be at school and they might have a lot of time on their hands.

[00:40:49] Because even that copy in the Stand First is, you know, sort of saying, here's a great new series to white boredom out of your life.

[00:40:57] Could you imagine a magazine saying to like women, especially like mothers today, anything like alluding to you being bored?

[00:41:07] Yeah.

[00:41:08] When I first looked at this, it just felt really twee and kind of, I feel a bit guilty saying this, but like a bit depressing.

[00:41:16] Like we said, white boredom from your life, winter will pass in a flash.

[00:41:20] It made me think of just like really unhappy people sitting at home, their potential crushed by patriarchal lifestyle standards.

[00:41:32] See, I didn't think of it as depressing.

[00:41:34] I thought it was a bit twee, but I thought it was quite sweet.

[00:41:37] But I didn't necessarily like register that people that it was speaking to were like at a loose end and were watching their best years like fritter away while they're making lace tablecloths.

[00:41:49] I mean, I'm projecting because that's how I would feel in that situation.

[00:41:54] I have no idea how these women felt.

[00:41:56] They may have been very happy.

[00:41:58] One thing I do think is really interesting, and I think this is to some extent has been reflected across a few of the magazines we've discussed and a few of the ones that we've got coming up,

[00:42:07] is that back then it was assumed that every reader would at least have a kind of basic level of skill or interest in some of these crafts.

[00:42:19] It was kind of assumed that everyone could knit or sew.

[00:42:22] It was assumed that everyone could cook.

[00:42:25] And that was interesting to me.

[00:42:27] I mean, now, if you're into crafts, if you're into sewing, knitting, cooking, you sort of have to seek it out and, you know, find your tribe.

[00:42:37] And I wonder if we like, is that good or bad?

[00:42:40] I mean, I feel like it's, you know, hobbies became something else to exploit by capitalism, right?

[00:42:47] So instead of having a magazine that assumed you had a base level of interest in certain things and gave you some generic content for it,

[00:42:55] publishing companies began publishing magazines that catered very specifically for those hobbies like sewing and crocheting and gardening.

[00:43:05] I mean, I don't think you necessarily have to work that hard to find your kind of tribe and find your content for specific hobbies.

[00:43:13] No, you don't.

[00:43:13] I suppose I've just been noticing it because I've been getting back into sewing in the last couple of years.

[00:43:18] And I'm now noticing as we do these magazines that they pretty much all have sewing patterns in.

[00:43:23] And that was very normal up until, well, certainly up until the end of the 80s.

[00:43:28] You know, our good housekeeping in 1988 had a knitting pattern and a sewing pattern in it.

[00:43:32] But it's certainly not assumed now that people would know how to sew.

[00:43:38] And when I tell people I'm sewing, I'm making my own clothes, it's definitely met with a kind of like, oh my goodness, get you.

[00:43:44] Yeah, I think that's definitely, I think it was definitely more common around like our mum's generation.

[00:43:50] Yeah.

[00:43:50] Like my mum, my mum used to make all her own clothes at school because she went to boarding school.

[00:43:55] And now, I mean, she didn't make much when she was working for most of her career.

[00:44:02] But like now she's retired, she makes clothes loads again now for me and my sister and her favourite daughter, my sister-in-law.

[00:44:13] I also sort of, I mean, you might not even necessarily think of them as hobbies, something like sewing.

[00:44:19] Just think of it as like just housekeeping skill.

[00:44:22] Right, yeah. It's just part of life, like cooking.

[00:44:24] Yeah, exactly.

[00:44:26] There's something a bit sexist about that.

[00:44:27] And I think there long has been with these kinds of things.

[00:44:31] You know, there's certainly a long tradition of that in this kind of craft world.

[00:44:37] Like men are tailors and women are seamstresses.

[00:44:42] Yeah.

[00:44:42] That kind of thing.

[00:44:44] Back in the day, men were chefs and women were cooks.

[00:44:47] So there's definitely...

[00:44:48] Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:44:48] There's definitely a hint of that, I think, which...

[00:44:51] Yeah, the opposite of professionalisation.

[00:44:55] Yeah.

[00:44:55] It's like the things that you are good at, the things that you are skilled at are sort of irrelevant.

[00:45:02] They're just your little hobbies.

[00:45:03] Which is not at all coming through in the pages.

[00:45:05] That is purely me looking at it, feeling very cynical.

[00:45:10] The feature itself is quite joyful.

[00:45:13] Yeah, it's quite sweet.

[00:45:14] I quite love it.

[00:45:15] As I said, I'm projecting.

[00:45:17] I'm projecting a lot of feminist rage onto the readers of 1972 Women's Zone that they probably weren't feeling.

[00:45:24] But it's like I said at the beginning of the show, like we're really in that gap between

[00:45:30] what we, looking back, consider to be historically and culturally significant and actually what people's day-to-day lives look like.

[00:45:39] And I think that's where my conflict is coming from, right?

[00:45:42] But I think that's like, twas ever thus, right?

[00:45:46] If you think about right now and you think about some of the...

[00:45:50] Think about the amount of features that have been published this year or in the last 18 months or so about non-monogamy and like polyamory and doing relationships entirely differently.

[00:46:03] And lots of people being quite radical about how they're kind of rethinking their relationship.

[00:46:09] And then you look at something like Love Island or like some other kind of mainstream reality TV show.

[00:46:19] And that whole kind of emerging scene is just not reflected at all.

[00:46:25] Oh, yeah, 100%.

[00:46:26] And, you know, in 50 years time, you know, somebody making a very similar podcast to this will be like,

[00:46:33] and what's wild is that 2024 was this really exciting time for relationship discourse.

[00:46:38] And, you know, this person's non-monogamy book had come out and this TV show had come out.

[00:46:43] But that's not really reflected in the pages of Grazia, is it?

[00:46:49] Apologies to Grazia, I just plucked that name out of nowhere.

[00:46:52] No shade.

[00:46:54] It is something that comes up with every issue.

[00:46:57] But for whatever reason, I kind of really felt it this week with Women's Own because it is so very domestic.

[00:47:06] I mean, Women's Own more recently is very much like a kind of...

[00:47:13] It's very much in that kind of like real life stories sort of genre of magazine

[00:47:18] rather than like a glossy.

[00:47:21] I'm just looking at what this week's Women's Own was.

[00:47:24] Royals in crisis.

[00:47:25] So they still very much love the Royals.

[00:47:28] Women's Own.

[00:47:29] Yeah, a lot of real life.

[00:47:31] Real life must read.

[00:47:32] He's not my granddad.

[00:47:33] He's my husband.

[00:47:37] Bit of age gap discourse.

[00:47:39] And shock report.

[00:47:41] Is your holiday making you sick?

[00:47:42] I mean, yes, very sick.

[00:47:46] Did literally make me sick.

[00:47:48] You've had a bad run with holidays.

[00:47:51] A couple of your recent holidays have made you sick.

[00:47:53] It's because I insist on going to interesting places and not taking very many precautions.

[00:48:02] It's that time in the show when we ask, what's hot and what's not in 1972?

[00:48:09] What is hot in 1972, Lucy?

[00:48:11] Well, apparently Prince Charles.

[00:48:14] Prince Charles.

[00:48:15] I mean, he's not, but he is eligible.

[00:48:21] He is single.

[00:48:22] Prince Charles was hot after a fashion in 1972.

[00:48:27] And what is not in 1972?

[00:48:31] Leaving our cheating husbands.

[00:48:33] It is not hot to leave your cheating husband.

[00:48:36] Also, sanitary belts.

[00:48:38] God, if you are still wearing or using a sanitary belt in 1972, get with the programme, ladies.

[00:48:47] Yeah.

[00:48:51] Thank you for listening.

[00:48:52] We hope you've enjoyed today's show.

[00:48:54] If you did, please consider leaving us a glowing review and smashing that five stars button.

[00:48:58] It'll help the podcast grow.

[00:49:00] We hope you join us again next time on MagHags,

[00:49:02] when we'll be meeting Toph Totty and the beasts of Belgravia.

[00:49:07] Bye-bye.

[00:49:07] Bye.

[00:49:08] Bye.

[00:49:08] Bye.